Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/01/1993 09:10 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
MINUTES
SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE
March 1, 1993
9:10 a.m.
TAPES
SFC-93, #32, Side 1
SFC-93, #32, Side 2
CALL TO ORDER
Senator Drue Pearce, Co-chair, convened the meeting at
approximately 9:10 a.m.
PRESENT
In addition to Co-chairs Pearce and Frank, Senators Kelly,
Kerttula and Sharp were present. Senators Jacko and Rieger
were not present.
ALSO ATTENDING: Senator Rick Halford, sponsor of SB 19;
Dean J. Guaneli, Chief, Criminal Division, Department of
Law; Teresa Sager-Stancliff, Aide to Senator Mike Miller,
sponsor of SB 46; Dave Kellyhouse, Director, Division of
Wildlife Conservation, Department of Fish and Game; Doug
Welton, himself; Janice Adair, Asst. Commissioner, Chief
Administrative Officer, Legislative Contact, Department of
Environmental Conservation; Brook Miles, Alaska Public
Offices Commission; Cindy Roberts, Special Assistant,
Department of Commerce and Economic Development; Josh Fink,
Aide to Senator Tim Kelly; Brooke Miles, Administrator,
Alaska Public Offices Commission, Department of
Administration; C.E. Swackhammer, Deputy Commissioner,
Department of Public Safety; Mike Greany, Director, and
Karen Rehfeld, Fiscal Analyst, and other analysts,
Legislative Finance Division; and aides to committee
members.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
CSSB 19(JUD): An Act relating to the crime of conspiracy.
Testimony was heard by Senator Halford,
sponsor of SB 19, and Dean Guaneli, Chief,
Department of Law. The bill was HELD in
committee pending submission of new language
by Dean Guaneli and Senators Kelly and
Halford.
SB 46: An Act authorizing moose farming.
Testimony was heard by Teresa Sager-
Stancliff, Aide to Sen. Mike Miller, sponsor
of SB 46; Dave Kellyhouse, Director, Division
of Wildlife Conservation, Department of Fish
and Game; Doug Welton, testified on behalf of
himself; and Janice Adair, Asst.
Commissioner, Chief Administrative Officer,
Legislative Contact, Department of
Environmental Conservation. The bill was
HELD in committee pending definition of
"surplus" moose.
SB 49: An Act relating to preelection reports;
closing the two-day reporting gap in those
reports; setting the date of February 15 for
filing year-end campaign finance reports; and
requiring reporting of zero year-end reports.
Discussion was had by Senator Kelly and Brook
Miles, Alaska Public Offices Commission. SB
49 was REPORTED OUT of committee with a "do
pass" and with a zero fiscal note for Alaska
Public Offices Commission, Department of
Administration. Co-chairs Pearce and Frank,
Senators Kelly and Sharp signed a "do pass."
Senator Kerttula signed a "no
recommendation."
CO-CHAIR DRUE PEARCE announced that three bills were before
the committee. She said she was not aware of any amendments
to SB 19, Crime of Conspiracy. She informed the committee
that there was a new CS for SB 46, Authorize Moose Farming,
and her intent was to hold this bill in committee. She
asked the committee to pass SB 49, Year-End Campaign Finance
Reports, out of committee.
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 19(JUD):
An Act relating to the crime of conspiracy.
Co-chair Pearce announced that CSSB 19 was before the
committee and invited Senator Rick Halford, sponsor of the
bill, to join the committee at the table. She asked Senator
Halford to speak to the fiscal notes as well as giving an
overview of the bill.
SENATOR RICK HALFORD stated that a similar bill to SB 19 had
passed the Senate in the 1992 legislative session. He said
that SB 19 recognizes the crime of conspiracy and makes the
penalty one step down from the commission of that crime. He
said that Alaska was one of the few states that did not have
conspiracy legislation. He directed attention to the zero
fiscal notes for the Department of Law and Department of
Public Safety. The Court System shows a fiscal note of
$121.1, and Department of Corrections, $365.0. He observed
that the two highest fiscal notes, totaling almost $1M, were
for the Office of Public Advocacy at $513.0, and the Public
Defender Agency showing $402.6. He felt the two high fiscal
notes were unrealistic, and reflected the departments'
disapproval of the legislation. He asked the committee to
consider the reasoning of the Department of Law that said
more cases could be settled with a conspiracy statute in
place than might be settled otherwise.
SENATOR JAY KERTTULA pointed out that the zero fiscal note
by the Department of Law conversely showed its support of
CSSB 19. He suspected that there would be some cost to the
Department of Law. He supported any statute that would
increase the chance of convicting felons and other
criminals. He asked Senator Halford to speak to the fact
that nationwide, the conspiracy statutes have been used
extensively to convict white collar criminals.
Senator Halford said that last session the House had made an
effort to broaden the conspiracy bill to include other
crimes. He maintained that CSSB 19 only dealt with serious
felony offenses. In answer to Co-chair Frank, Senator
Halford defined a "serious felony offense" as an offense
"...against a person under AS 11.41, punishable as an
unclassified or class A felony," such as murder, rape,
kidnapping, "or involving controlled substances under AS
11.71, punishable as an unclassified, class A, or class B
felony," such as trafficking drugs.
DEAN J. GUANELI, Chief, Criminal Division, Department of
Law, spoke to class B felonies in connection with controlled
substances. He said the primary offense under this statute
was the sale of cocaine. A class A felony was primarily the
sale of heroin, and unclassified drug offenses targeted
large drug rings, and the sale of heroin and cocaine to
minors. In answer to Co-chair Frank, Mr. Guaneli said,
under current Alaska law, criminal liability can attach to a
person that pulls the trigger, or to someone who aids and
abets that person, or to a person that attempts that crime.
He said what is missing in Alaska law, that exists in most
other states, is the ability to attach criminal liability
when two people get together to plan a felony, and begin to
carry it out. He explained that the theory underlying
conspiracy was that it is important to stop an offense such
as contract murder, early in the planning stages. The other
theory is that when two people get together to plan a crime,
it is more likely that it will happen. He admitted, that
within Alaska, other theories of criminal liability, aiding
and abetting, soliciting, overlap to some extent. But he
felt there are particular circumstances involving criminal
organizations and drug rings where the only way to reach a
criminal is through a conspiracy law.
Co-chair Frank asked how many additional situations would
CSSB 19 create where the Department of Law would make
arrests, and/or take to court individuals, and how that was
reflected in the zero fiscal note. Mr. Guaneli said that
there were very few cases where conspiracy would be the only
crime charged. The conspiracy offense would almost always
be combined with other more serious offenses. The
conspiracy offense, being a lesser offense, could be used to
plea bargain, for example, to facilitate testimony, or if
there is not enough evidence to hold the individual on the
more serious offense, conspiracy would be the only remaining
offense.
SENATOR TIM KELLY had noticed on the Judiciary Committee
Report that two senators had recommended "do pass" with
amendments. He asked what those amendments were. Senator
Halford said that the amendments were similar to ones added
last session to the House conspiracy bill. One amendment
said that an individual who was originally involved in the
conspiracy, but after alerting the police, could return as
an undercover agent in that conspiracy, and would not be
charged in the conspiracy. Another amendment said the
individual had to agree to, take action, and communicate
about the crime, in order to be charged. Another question
was whether a law enforcement officer could be involved in
the beginning of a conspiracy. Senator Kerttula agreed that
someone in the law enforcement agency might initiate a crime
and that could become part of a conspiracy. In which case,
nothing would have ever happened if it had not been
initiated in the first place. He pointed out that CSSB 19
would increase the cost for the entire justice system, and
quoted from the backup for the Department of Law's fiscal
note.
Mr. Guaneli said conspiracy laws formerly introduced had a
much broader range. Senator Kerttula asked Mr. Guaneli if
he had enough funding to run the Department of Law. Mr.
Guaneli said that any agency could use more money, and this
year there was a small increase in the Governor's funding
this year.
Mr. Guaneli noted that CSSB 19 was directed at serious
offenses. He stated that a directive would be issued to all
law enforcement agencies that it not their responsibility to
file charges involving conspiracy. After a careful review
of the evidence, prosecutors would make the decision to
charge an individual with a conspiracy. He assured the
committee that he would not be coming back to the
legislature asking for additional funding if CSSB 19 passed.
Senator Kerttula said that it was his long experience that
the present administration's attitude toward certain
legislation may change drastically in ten years or less, and
could run off in another direction without controls of some
kind in place.
Co-chair Frank asked how CSSB 19 would be limited to the
Department of Law. Mr. Guaneli said even though the police
would have the authority to file a conspiracy complaint in
court, the Department of Law would discourage it. He said
that Department of Law would insist that conspiracy charges
would originate in the Department of Law. Co-chair Frank
asked if the Department of Law would like to see wording to
that effect in CSSB 19. Mr. Guaneli said he felt that would
not be necessary. He proposed that the state troopers and
the larger police agencies would cooperate in this area.
Discussion followed between Senators Kelly, Kerttula and Mr.
Guaneli regarding language in the bill speaking to a
conspiracy charge not being initiated by an undercover or
law enforcement authority. Mr. Guaneli felt that the
entrapment laws took care of that concern. Senator Kerttula
proposed that a letter of intent be added to CSSB 19. Co-
chair Pearce agreed to work with Senator Kerttula on
language for a letter of intent.
Co-chair Frank related his concern that this law would
increase the number of individuals jailed and length of
sentences, which in turn would raise Department of
Corrections' costs. Mr. Guaneli said that CSSB 19 was
amended in Senate Judiciary Committee to say that proof
beyond a reasonable doubt of intent to facilitate a
particular crime, an agreement between two parties to carry
it out, and an overt act in order to charge an individual of
conspiracy. Included in that amendment was a definition of
an overt act. He concluded that in the terms of the
elements that have to be proven, it showed that it was an
act that should have been stopped.
Senator Kelly suggested that the letter of intent state that
CSSB 19 was not meant to get around the entrapment statute.
Co-chair Pearce asked Senators Kelly, Kerttula, Halford, and
Mr. Guaneli to draft a letter of intent for CSSB 19 . With
no further testimony to be heard, Co-chair Pearce announced
that CSSB 19 would be HELD in committee and heard again on
Wednesday, March 3, 1993.
SENATE BILL NO. 46:
An Act authorizing moose farming.
Co-chair Pearce announced that SB 46 was before the
committee. Co-chair Frank MOVED for adoption of the work
draft CSSB 46 dated February 26, 1993. No objections having
been raised, CSSB 46 was ADOPTED for discussion purposes.
Co-chair Pearce invited Teresa Sager-Stancliff, Aide to
Senator Mike Miller, sponsor of SB 46, to join members at
the committee table and speak to the changes in the CS for
SB 46.
TERESA SAGER-STANCLIFF, aide to Senator Mike Miller, said
the CS gave several state agencies regulatory authority over
moose farming. The Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
would be given the authority to promote and develop moose
farming, and regulate it as it does domestic livestock. The
Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) would also be
given the authority to regulate moose farming as it does
domestic livestock. That would mean DEC would be authorized
to visit and inspect moose farms for experiments, provide
care and breeding disease prevention, and certify that a
facility would be able to prevent disease transmission from
captive moose to wild moose or other wild animals, and from
captive livestock to other domestic livestock. It would
also give the Department of Fish and Game (DF&G) the
authority to require certain provisions of a moose facility.
DF&G would require a certificate from DEC on disease
prevention and transmission, ear tattooing and an ear tag
for identification. It would require escape-proof and
entry-proof fencing, and notification of birth, sale,
slaughter, escape and death of a captive moose. The
applicant would have to agree to pay for a necropsy when a
captive moose dies to determine the cause of death, and be
required to notify DF&G if a wild animal enters the moose
farming facility within 24-hours of the entry. The facility
would have to register their moose with all three agencies,
DEC, DF&G, and DNR. She said the importation of moose for
moose farming purposes, and raising moose and domestic
livestock on the same facility would be prohibited. She
informed the committee that the two amendments being
proposed were agreed to by Senator Mike Miller, sponsor of
SB 46.
In answer to Senator Kerttula, Ms. Sager-Stancliff said that
the way CSSB 46 was presently written, domestic livestock
and moose would not be allowed in the same facility.
Senator Kerttula advised that brucellosis was a very
dangerous and easily transmitted disease between domestic
and wild animals, and this disease alone made him cautious
about domesticating moose. Ms. Sager Stancliff agreed that
was also a concern of Senator Miller's.
End SFC-93 #32, Side 1
Begin SFC-93 #32, Side 2
DAVE KELLYHOUSE, Director, Division of Wildlife
Conservation, Department of Fish and Game, thanked Senator
Miller for including language that addressed DF&G's concerns
regarding moose farming. He said that a new fiscal note had
not been prepared for CSSB 46. He said that if the
legislature and its constituents believe that the potential
benefits of moose farming are great enough to offset the
concerns and problems foreseen by DF&G, then he recommended
the state proceed cautiously. He offered a conceptual
alternative to CSSB 46 that would provide for a well-funded
pilot project jointly administered by DF&G, DEC and DNR over
the next five years. He suggested five years because in
that time a moose could mature and reproduce, and monitoring
could be done of the operation and procedures could be
developed to safeguard Alaska's wildlife resource. He
proposed that Alaska's wildlife was worth over a $100M in
hunting alone plus hundreds of millions in tourist dollars.
He said that whatever approach the legislature would take
regarding moose farming, DF&G should be given regulatory
authority along with DNR and DEC. He stated that DF&G had
over 20 years experience for captive moose in the state. He
reiterated that the potential for disease transmission to
animals and humans, and the potential for poaching, are real
concerns that must be dealt with if SB 46 was to pass.
Co-chair Pearce questioned DF&G's request for a 5-year pilot
project. She felt that DF&G already had spent 30 years on a
pilot project at the moose research center, and questions
should have been answered there. She said she was tired of
DF&G saying no in a new way.
Senator Kerttula said that money had been funded to visit a
large Scandinavian moose facility. His opinion was that
questions could be answered by investigating existing
facilities. He said his main concerns were biological, and
cost to the state in the enforcement of new regulations for
moose facilities.
In answer to Co-chair Pearce's request, Mr. Kelleyhouse
agreed to have a new fiscal note and position paper from
DF&G ready for the next committee meeting. Senator Kerttula
asked DF&G to speak to his suggestion that information
regarding moose farming was readily available from other
facilities. Mr. Kelleyhouse said that Dr. Chuck Swartz,
senior research biologist at the moose research center, had
contacted all the game farm operations in North America and
also one in the Soviet Union. He said the information Dr.
Swartz had gathered has been the basis of DF&G testimony for
the last two years. He said Dr. Swartz was developing a
manuscript on moose farming, and it should be available
within two weeks.
Mr. Kelleyhouse explained that what he meant by a pilot
program in earlier testimony was that DF&G would work with
private enterprise at a moose facility. Senator Kerttula
asked if DF&G felt that it would take another five years of
research at a facility or does DF&G have enough information
at this time. Mr. Kelleyhouse said he believed that moose
farming would not be commercially viable in Alaska, and
there were other problems too. He said the DF&G research
and information has been collected in other jurisdictions
and situations. If moose farming is going to proceed in
Alaska under Alaskan situations, other questions would have
to be answered such as, availability of feed, transportation
corridors, etc. But he stated that DF&G would be willing to
work with DEC and DNR in that regard.
JANICE ADAIR, Assistant Commissioner, Chief Administrative
Officer, Legislative Contact, Department of Environmental
Conservation, said that DEC did not have any problems with
SB 46. She pointed out that DEC has a meat and poultry
inspection program, and within that program, employs a state
veterinarian, Dr. Bert Gore. She quoted from Dr. Gore's
letter which addresses disease transmission, dated February
25, 1993 (copy on file). She read, "Confined animals have
difficulty transmitting disease to wildlife or other animals
if there is no contact. Disease could only be transmitted
from confined animals to others using a vector or
intermediate host," such as a flea. "To date I am not aware
of any vectors, i.e., flies, ticks, or snails, in Alaska
which have been incriminated in disease transmission in
livestock" with the exception of dogs and cats who "do get
tapeworms from shrews, rabbits and some fleas." She also
said that Dr. Gore, because of research information
available, supported the farming of indigenous species in
Alaska.
Senator Kerttula said that he disagreed with Dr. Gore in his
evaluation of disease transmission. He said a vector did
not have to be involved in disease transmission. He said it
could simply be a dog that went under a fence and had
contact with an animal, or simply an animal that stepped in
infected fecal matter. He warned that it was a dangerous
situation and not to be taken lightly.
Co-chair Pearce asked Cindy Roberts, Special Assistant,
Department of Commerce and Economic Development, if she
wished to testify. CINDY ROBERTS answered that the
Department of Commerce and Economic Development was in
support of SB 46, and directed the committee's attention to
a position paper by the Department in their files.
Co-chair Pearce invited Doug Welton to join the committee at
the table. Since Mr. Welton had testified before in support
of SB 46, she asked him to confine his testimony to the
changes to SB 46.
DOUG WELTON, testifying for himself, said that for five
years he had been working on legislation to approve moose
farming. He felt a key to passing SB 46 was defining the
word "surplus." He said that all over Alaska moose were
being killed by cars and the railroad. He felt that if
individuals were allowed to salvage some of the "surplus" or
orphaned moose, and relocated them to a farm, it would
provide an opportunity for tourism and education. He was
grateful that DF&G, for the first time, had offered their
support to private moose enterprise. He felt DF&G had been
studying moose for years. Mr. Welton admitted that moose
had been found to be one of the most uneconomical animals to
raise because of their peculiarities and need for large
tracts of land. He agreed that anyone looking at moose
farming would have to have other financial support. His
idea was to develop a milk, yogurt and cheese market, and
hoped someday, to have a small moose herd to pass on to his
children. He said that raising moose gave him great
pleasure, and he saw advantages to moose farming other than
economical.
In answer to Senator Kelly, Mr. Welton said he would keep
his butchering operation separate from the tourist
attraction. Mr. Welton said he would keep all the cows, but
relocate any that he was unable to financially or physically
care for. He said bulls would be butchered at around 18
months. His experience showed that hand raised moose were
able to be bred at 18 months rather than three years. He
said he would raise some of the moose as pets and some as
livestock.
Co-chair Frank directed attention to amendment #1 for SB 46
which changed the language on page 5, line 18 and 19, that
said "on the same facility" to read "in the same fenced
area." Co-chair Frank then MOVED for adoption of amendment
ADOPTED for incorporation within a Finance Committee
Substitute for SB 46.
Senator Sharp directed attention to amendment #2 for SB 46
on page 3, which said that the moose farm would provide safe
facilities for the veterinarian and the animals when
required inspections were performed. Senator Sharp then
MOVED for adoption of amendment #2. No objection having
been raised, the amendment was ADOPTED for incorporation
within a Finance Committee Substitute for SB 46.
Co-Chair Pearce asked if Senator Miller's intent was to
define the word "surplus." Ms. Sager-Stancliff said that
Senator Miller had considered an amendment addressing orphan
moose. Discussion followed between Senator Kerttula and Ms.
Sager-Stancliff regarding orphan moose, and if orphan moose
could be considered "surplus." Co-chair Pearce announced
that CSSB 46(FIN) would be held in committee and heard again
on Wednesday, March 3, 1993.
SENATE BILL NO. 49:
An Act relating to preelection reports; closing the
two-day reporting gap in those reports; setting the
date of February 15 for filing year-end campaign
finance reports; and requiring reporting of zero
year-end reports.
Co-chair Pearce invited Senator Kelly, sponsor of SB 49, to
speak to the bill. He said the major provisions of the bill
would close a two day loophole, and make some changes to the
campaign reporting laws. JOSH FINK, aid to Senator Kelly,
said that SB 49 would change the deadline for the year end
reports from December 31 to February 15. Currently, APOC
does accept reports by January 15 but February 15 is a more
practical date. The scope of the year end report would
change making it easier to read and understand, and the
filing of zero year end reports would become mandatory. Mr.
Fink explained that APOC then could monitor the filing of
those reports and levy fines on those who do not file.
BROOKE MILES, Administrator, Alaska Public Offices
Commission (APOC), Department of Administration, spoke in
support of SB 49. She said the bill accomplishes some
housekeeping that APOC has supported for the last twelve
years. She said that closing the two-day gap in the
reporting period was very important because 24-hour
reporting is required when a candidate receives a
contribution over $250. Because of the existing gap of two
days, candidates can now receive contributions over $250
during the two days, and the public is not aware of it until
after the election.
Senator Kelly MOVED for passage of SB 49 from committee with
accompanying fiscal notes. No objections having been
raised, SB 49 was REPORTED OUT of committee with a zero
fiscal note for the Department of Administration, Alaska
Public Offices Commission. Co-chairs Pearce and Frank,
Senators Kelly and Sharp signed the committee report with a
"do pass" recommendation. Senator Kerttula signed a "no
recommendation." Senators Jacko and Rieger were absent and
did not sign.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 10:30 a.m.
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